Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Questions and comments about Other World Mapper.

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Lionheart
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Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Lionheart » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:14 pm

With the release of the new updated version, I think it is appropriate to add my thoughts on OWM and its future. Because I see there is a lot of wasted potential here.

In my experience Other World Mapper is a great tool. It is not perfect, but it is very smooth and versatile. Now my background is that I try to create an RPG and a book series (both not released yet) so I am constantly seeking out and reading about and even trying new software and tools that can help on this journey.

I chose OWM over all the other mapping programs because everything you previously created can be changed later on. Every little nook and cranny can be updated no matter how long ago you created it. And everything is vector-based so you can scale things to a large degree.
Another important factor for me was the commercial use of the tool. I need to be able to use these maps in my planned products. Of course the price was very attractive also.

When I got the tool three years ago I was expecting rapid releases and aggressive marketing and additions to the tool. It is THAT great and has THAT potential. Alas it is languishing and I feel it is not just about the beer-bug situation. There is a lack of commitment and direction. And I don't mean this in a negative way. Tools like these are very costly and time-consuming to develop and without proper backing and if the numbers don't add up it is hard to continue forever with huge resources allotted to it.

But I think much more could be done. Look at PROJECT DEIOS (PD). Where OWM is doing a lot of what PD is doing and wants to do, OWM is already out and has been for a long time, but PD is still locked in technical alpha. Despite that, PD racked in €421,985 in their Kickstarter. OWM on the other hand only did $26,823. PD is still not released and seems to be hung up on delays.
Of course PD is made by or at least partnered with Dungeon Fog, so they already had a big, strong fan base. And they found allies in other people such as the World Anvil team. There is a long planned integration with WA, that seems to be very long away on the horizon. WA might be ripe for another partnership. But there are many others.
PD does not even offer a commercial license. You guys do.

So what I am I saying is, OWM is not on most peoples top 3 let alone top 5 over the best map making tools. But I think the potential and quality is there. Looking at the kickstarter and general marketing (and lack thereof) I feel a lot could be done. Perhaps even a more sexy rebranding. More high quality assets would also be useful and important. I think assets should be a lot more easier to produce than the actual tool. Ally yourselves with a great artist and run a big splash kickstarter to re-release the tool in a new more attractive version.

Map making software is made to appeal to the RPG crowd. I think partnerships should be sought out. Branding and integrations should appeal to the ever-growing RPG community. A social presence needs to steadily grow and be nurtured and hit the target audience. You should probably have the right people in charge of that. You should consider having an artist creating and styling both the brand and the assets and look and feel of the tool.
If you don't do it, make no mistake, others are. There are other great projects in beta on their way. Will OWM survive the next 3-5 years with a skeleton crew such as this one?

If I were you I would invest more; because the technical framework is clearly there. The tool needs the extra oomph in looks and usability and the branding and marketing needs a lot more attention. Seek out partnerships. World Anvil might not be exclusive with PD; perhaps they are interested in more integrations? Perhaps run a really beautiful RPG centric Kickstarter to improve the current offering with assets and new features. Find out what the RPG crowd are missing. And check out other tools. Perhaps someone like Plottr? Or build a portfolio of tools around OWM.

You guys need to focus more on community content, having a Discord server, running weekly or bi-weekly contests with good prizes. You need an active Instagram to showcase work from the community and yourselves. Perhaps even hire an artist to showcase the capabilities or make videos about how to take it to the next level.

Other World Mapper name is not so appealing as a brand. And the logo is regular orange text. Nothing that jumps on the eye. Look at branding not just for World Anvil and Project Deios, but look at kickstarters for RPG (5E) games. I mean I got better branding for my up-coming project and I am just 1 person commissioning stuff.

I totally realize none of these are easy. They take investment of time and money. But I really feel you guys have the most important thing nailed down; a really good tool with great core features. Now you just need to dress this sexy beast up in some nice clothes and make sure it gets to go out and play with the rest of the world!

Sincerely
D.
Last edited by Lionheart on Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SilverSurfer1221
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by SilverSurfer1221 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:57 am

It's interesting (to me) that you would post this. I've done a pretty decent search for fantasy map creation software in the past (and even again today, just to see what's out there). There are a lot of "Top 10" lists (or Top 5 or whatever) that list software. You see Inkarnate, WunderDraft, Campaign Cartographer, and a few others. But I rarely run across Other World Mapper on these lists.

I, too, chose OWM over the others to use for a variety of reasons. I own Campaign Cartographer, but it's UI is ancient (it's like revisiting Windows 98!) and I find if I don't use it for a while, I have to relearn it (it's a very complex piece of ancient tech). OWM is much, much easier to learn ... but it's not quite as feature rich. Even though it does excel in many areas (rivers that can vary in size, for example).

I also own WunderDraft. It's the simplest of all to use. But I find it exceedingly limited ... though it is fun to use. Even so, I find OWM to have many more features and allow for more creative freedom than WonderDraft does.

I also have supported Project Deios because I was interested in what it might become. They are currently on Alpha tech release 0.2.0. You can't really do anything with it at this stage. So, while they have a really nice website and some nice videos, none of what you can see in the videos promoting Project Deios can be done at all in the software. It's early days and from the look of things, it may be "early days" for a long, long time.

Like you, I was really hoping for more updates, but let's face it - COVID-19 put a damper on a lot of things. So, I'm hoping things move a bit more swiftly from here on out and we won't have to wait months or more for the 1.04 update. ;) I really like OWM and want to see it grow (both as a program and by gaining users). But I do agree - they need to get the word out better. Of course, us end-users can help with that, letting people know about other world mapper.
Last edited by SilverSurfer1221 on Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kanchou
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Kanchou » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:42 pm

Thank you for the comments! There's a lot substance there, but I'm going to concentrate on the main points. Please let me know if you feel I missed something important, I might come back later to add more as things come to mind.

First a preface. We are a small team and we do software contracting. In essence, we are ghost writers :). The negative side is obviously that at times OWM dev work slows down, the positive is that we don't depend on OWM on a monthly basis so if sales are down OWM isn't at risk of being dropped from active development. This was something we discussed early with our KS supporters, some saw it as a negative, but I think it's allowed us to continue even though other software projects didn't (I recall several around our KS time that never made the light).

For partnerships, from the movement OWM was usable we spent years reaching out to various groups, companies and personalities. It boils down to most of them ignoring us (some I would say worse than ignoring). There's been some notable exceptions: Anna B Meyer was awesome from day 1, the guys from Frog God Games were great, the ProFantasy crew is super nice and some smaller podcasters (some which aren't around anymore). We didn't come from the tabletop community and for various reasons it's been difficult for us to make inroads into it.
I don't mention this normally because I don't like complaining about something we have no control over and can't do much about, except the point that follows....

For marketing and pushing OWM, we actually had been doing that in 2019 a lot. We had more of a social media presence, we ran ads and we did a contests (some of this already before 2019). We went to conventions and made more people from the community, started networking at a local level and we had grand plans for 2020... but 2020 had a different idea.

Again, I don't like complaining so what are our plans now? One convention that was planned for this year already canceled, but the other 2 we'll make it to if they happen. We are about to start creating content and push on social media again, doing more videos and we'll work to do more artwork soon (I'll talk about this more in a separate reply).

A final word, which SilverSurfer is quite right about:
SilverSurfer1221 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:57 am
Of course, use end-users can help with that, letting people know about other world mapper.
From the beginning, that's how we have reached more people most effectively, so any help there is very much appreciated!

- Alejandro
Alejandro S. Canosa
Three Minds Software

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SilverSurfer1221
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by SilverSurfer1221 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:16 pm

Thanks for the reply ... and the info. Having said that, let's tackle one of the obvious ones - search engine presence. When I go to Google and type a search like, "Fantasy Map Creation Software" there not a single link to OWM on the first page. Six of the links are to sites with articles about the "best map making software". Not one of them mentions OWM. So, this means not a single hit for OWM on the first page. OWM (your original Kickstarter page) finally shows up on page 4. Your actual website? I went through 10 pages and didn't see it. Changing the search to "RPG Map Creation Software" gives me virtually identical results. The good news is I did see you on the D&D Compendium - Maps & Map tools.

Google is one way in which potential users will find you. I am a bit more tedious with searches and will dig for pages and pages looking for gold ... which is most likely how I eventually found Other World Mapper originally. But most today seem to be much, much less tedious ... a page or two at most. So, I'd say your web presence needs improving (on search engines).

Now, once people find your website, there's another issue (imo) - the website is ... meh. On the phone it looks even worse - not a single graphic to catch anyone's attention at all. OWM is a graphics program ... a program that can create stunning images for maps. So, to not have a single image on the landing page when on your phone? Most of the younger people these days surf for info on their phones. Not sure why they prefer staring into those small screens when they could have a huge monitor ... but whatever. ;) So, you should really consider a website redesign.

Look at something like Project Deios:

https://www.dungeonfog.com/deios/

It's not a great site, by any stretch of the imagination. But it does the job (at least a bit). Not having a more modern website makes the software seem outdated (despite the fact one has little to do with the other). Somehow, Campaign Cartographer gets away with it. Awful website. But so is the UI of CC3+. ;)

To me, it's good news that you guys have a steady income. It does indicate that OWM can survive regardless of sales. However, I wonder if that may cause a bit of a problem, too. For example, if you're not intending OWM to be the income you live off of, then what's the real incentive to push it to the level where it becomes a real contender in the market? I'm not saying this is the case, but I can see how this could be taken either way.

It certainly helps to have partners, to get reviews from bloggers, vloggers, and others. But there are ways around this, too. I do what I can, too. When I see someone on Facebook or Discord asking about mapping software, I always point them to OWM. :)

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Kanchou
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Kanchou » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:53 pm

These are all great points and we'll work to give them the attention they need. Redoing the website is probably the one thing that would take too long to do right now, considering we have a lot of dev work planned for this year and social media/video content to create.

Also, if you guys have any contacts with podcasters/influencers/etc we'll be happy to reach out! We've offered free licenses for contest prices before, cross advertising, etc.

Thank you!

- Alejandro
Alejandro S. Canosa
Three Minds Software

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SilverSurfer1221
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by SilverSurfer1221 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:56 pm

Redoing the website is probably the one thing that would take too long to do right now, considering we have a lot of dev work planned for this year and social media/video content to create.
I hear you. Time is a tough mistress, to be sure. Only so many hours in the day. ;)

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Kanchou
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Kanchou » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:06 pm

SilverSurfer1221 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:56 pm
I hear you. Time is a tough mistress, to be sure. Only so many hours in the day. ;)
Ain't that the truth :lol: My team keeps telling me I need to sleep though, not sure why that is :roll:

- Alejandro
Alejandro S. Canosa
Three Minds Software

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SilverSurfer1221
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by SilverSurfer1221 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:09 pm

Sleep, you say? Hmmm ... I'll have to look into that ... Not certain I know what that is ... :roll:

Lionheart
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Lionheart » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:54 pm

I am happy to see the great discussion my post sparked. Just what I was hoping for. And anything I say should be prefaced with my profound love for you guys; I really want to see you succeed!

I can attest to that I do mention OWM whenever I can. I did so in a World Anvil Live stream today to someone who was quite impressed when I said that it can be used commercially. You probably have a sale right there.
But at the end of the day much more needs to be done.

Being a small development team is a challenge for sure, but like you say, could also be an advantage like you speak about. Mostly I see this as a disadvantage though simply because you are missing the train at some point.

Looking at some of the things I and you guys have said, these are some of the low-hanging fruit, that is less development heavy, but some of them cost money:

1) Re-branding to something more sexy. I just checked and one idea of a cool one word name is TERRAFORMIA. terraformia.com is available right now! But your tool, while creating cool maps, is branded like it was made a decade earlier. You need to start a hype train really.
(update: I purchased the domain myself but will happily hand it over to you for free if you want to rebrand to it; otherwise I will use it myself for something)
2) Getting a new logo. This can be done with both a new or the old name. But getting a cool RPG style logo (something eye catching really) would help a lot.
3) If you don't have resources to update the whole website (the technical framework) you could consider tweaking the existing template with more appealing high-quality and modern images, perhaps an introductory video. Use an artist or two to improve things. Lots can be done within this framework.
4) Run some silent FB campaigns, work on targeting them well.
5) Start a Discord server up. Run weekly or bi-weekly map challenges. For inspiration see the FLOWSCAPE tool and its Discord. They run weekly FS challenges with 100 USD in prices every week. I participated a few weeks and won a shared prize recently. Not saying you have a budget for that. But less big prizes might work as well. Or even prices like books or anything; perhaps you can find some sponsors of cool prizes in the industry of RPGs, map making authors etc. Free advertisement for them too. Could even be pdfs. The purpose of the Discord is not to get tons of new customers but to nurture super fans!
6) Run a Kickstarter to bring in more assets to the game. To minimize your workload I would suggest to do a profit-share agree with an artist creating a lot of new assets for a share of the profit of the kickstarter (not in the future!). Kickstarters is in my opinion one of the best ways to pull people in. But if you do this the assets need to FIRST class and the branding and Kickstarter must be as well. Everything has to look GREAT and be on the level with heavy hitters in the industry. This is such a low-hanging fruit. Other tools have ten times the amount of assets you guys have. And it is the best way I can think of to get more eyeballs on your tool. But it has to be associated with a lot of "noise" on the interwebz.
7) Find an out-going person who can spear-head your social media presence and create ideas for not just map making but world-building etc. A YouTube channel with frequent updates would be a great way to start. I suggest the person should not have a too heavy accent in English.
8) Work on your SEO. Make sure you use the right keywords on your website and are posting frequently enough on social media to garner some attention.

Outside of the suggestions above if you are able to free up a lot more development time one way you can also go in addition to above (not instead of): Take a free trial of PLOTTR. I recently tried this tool out. What they do has received a LOT of attention for authors. It is basically a plotting tool for books and world-building. And it functions mostly as timelines of books, stories and plot elements but can be used as timelines for world-building as well. On top of that are character information in sheets. You can call it World Anvil Lite. And it integrates with Scrivener too.
I think you guys, with your abilities, could create a similar tool and develop it to integrate with your map tool. If you can create something that could appeal to both authors AS WELL as RPG gamers, you might have a winner on your hands.

You guys really have a gem in the rough here. It just needs to be discovered by people. Most people I ask on various Discords and streams have never heard about you. But I try to notch them your way :)
I am rooting for your continued success! If there is anything you care to discuss or have some more eyes on, feel free to bounce ideas off me here or in private messages. I am happy to help.

Sincerely
D.
Last edited by Lionheart on Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Kanchou
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Kanchou » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:00 pm

More thoughts to come later :), but we do have a YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMXvCv ... 9HYRlFj96A

Katie (one of the 3 devs) has been doing the videos and we are aiming to increase the rate. A lot of this we had started doing before 2020 changed our plans.

- Alejandro
Alejandro S. Canosa
Three Minds Software

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