Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Questions and comments about Other World Mapper.

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Balmung
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Balmung » Thu May 20, 2021 1:01 pm

FoaS wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 7:58 am
I would not presume to tell you how to run your business - you folks at 3MS have more experience running 3MS than I do.

However, I would like to add a "+1" to having an official discord. I do not know if there is sufficient bandwidth to manage it, but I've seen it work wonders for companies in terms of communication and accessibility, and for hype and collaboration between users. It's also a good way for people to help each other in real-time - built in support.
Collaboration is limited through OWM itself, since the files are byte code (not readable) and therefor you can't merge them via git.

For feedback and inspiration I prefer reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/mapmaking/ (~98k members).

To help someone a forum is way better than discord.

Lionheart
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Lionheart » Thu May 20, 2021 2:09 pm

I really disagree with that. I have seen first hand what a discord can do to a community. Great examples are World Anvil and FlowScape, where small communities have built up around the tool and it extends beyond just getting help. But Reddit for those is way more dead and the discord very much alive. A forum is a bit of a thing of the past. You just don't have the same sense of community on Reddit that you do on discord.

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Balmung
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Balmung » Thu May 20, 2021 2:47 pm

You guys could just start a discord server - it doesn't have to be managed by the devs ;)

Lionheart
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Lionheart » Thu May 20, 2021 2:54 pm

I started this thread to give, what I think are some helpful suggestions to the Devs for how they can create more interest in the tool, because I feel it deserves a lot more attention for what it is but also deserves more development time. You are welcome to chime in. I just don't see how suggesting an unofficial discord server is relevant to that or helpful in any way.
An unofficial discord is not the way to garner more interest for the tool. People want to be closer to the devs and see what is brewing.

It is entirely up to the devs if they feel this side-business of theirs is worth investing more time and effort into. They know the work involved and the numbers they are pulling in. But as an outsider, I feel much more can be done.

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SilverSurfer1221
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by SilverSurfer1221 » Thu May 20, 2021 3:02 pm

It's nice if end-users start a Discord channel, sure. But if the devs do it, if they create an official Discord channel, then they can control it, ensuring that the channel reflects their software and their business. They can't do that with a non-official channel.

Like Lionheart, I've seen, and been a part of, several official Discord channels for software I use. I've always found them fantastic tools to share and help and get helped. And in today's market place, many expect a Discord channel for communication. Even if the devs cannot be there to monitor it at "all times", they can appoint moderators, whom they trust, to be there in their place.

FoaS
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by FoaS » Thu May 20, 2021 5:17 pm

fwiw, and being mindful that we are the gallery, I agree that an unofficial discord would not have the same impact as an official one. it's more likely that you'd end up with multiple unofficial ones that come in waves as people come and go.

don't get me wrong, forums are fine (if a bit dated, but that's not a deal breaker) but there's definitely a different benefit to a more real-time chat mechanism. like others, I've seen a lot of spontaneous idea collaboration and brainstorming happen in real time, to say nothing of just talking off topic. it's a more casual space and can lend itself to community building in that way.

even so, it is a time investment for *someone* and while I think it's a *good* idea, I'm hardly in a position to know if it's the *right* idea

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Balmung
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Balmung » Thu May 20, 2021 6:46 pm

I have only written that solving issues in a forum works better than via discord. I would prefer a real issue tracker, but at least it's structured and easy to manage.

But in general, there is nothing stopping anybody to post finished maps or maps currently in creation; or anything else. It just don't happend on a daily or even weekly basis. In fact, the last map shared in this thread (https://otherworldmapper.com/forum/view ... 5&start=30) was 9 months ago.

I really don't want to slow down or demotivate anyone here, but if you're craving more activity and content, just get more active; regardless of the software.

Lionheart
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Lionheart » Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 pm

Honestly, you are missing the point. Rather than nitpicking my suggestions or telling people to be more active, try re-reading what this thread was about and consider contributing. I wanted to share my thoughts on some stuff OWM could do to be more successful, because they are not presently. This is a fact. As I and others have stated they don't really rank on top mapping tools lists. There is little to no buzz about them. And it takes more than a rare YouTube tutorial to create a social media presence. All the while other tools are building on their success, where OWM is stagnating. Even though they are not necessarily better or even completed.

Any company should be interested in building super fans and power users. And for a tool such as OWM discord could be a way forward. Reddit doesn't do that. Of course a company can do without it, but I think it is a missed opportunity. There are others where even the devs themselves make themselves available a little each week, hold weekly contests etc. and where the community thrives. It is the super fans that helps building word of mouth and spreading the gospel. Business 101.

Judging from the lack of dev participation even on this forum and in general and the responses, it seem OWM is a sideshow though, and it will just be what it is. I wish them all the best. But it takes a lot more to get this train rolling.

FoaS
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by FoaS » Thu May 20, 2021 10:20 pm

Balmung wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 6:46 pm
I have only written that solving issues in a forum works better than via discord. I would prefer a real issue tracker, but at least it's structured and easy to manage.
Despite the fact that we're talking about two different types of issues (it seems like you're talking about "Software Bugs" and I'm talking about "Creative and Collaborative Goings on") - I still disagree that a forum is better, even for communicating about software issues. Although, a bug/feature tracker, like Nolt, would be handy, that's *still* not what we're talking about - we're talking about user involvement.
Balmung wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 6:46 pm
But in general, there is nothing stopping anybody to post finished maps or maps currently in creation; or anything else. It just don't happend on a daily or even weekly basis. In fact, the last map shared in this thread (https://otherworldmapper.com/forum/view ... 5&start=30) was 9 months ago.
See, to me, that's a reflection on forums as a communication method.
Balmung wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 6:46 pm
I really don't want to slow down or demotivate anyone here, but if you're craving more activity and content, just get more active; regardless of the software.
I don't understand what you're going for here.

Someone, wanting to get move involved, feels stymied by the current mechanisms that are at their disposal, decides to offer up an alternative that they feel would make both themselves, and others, get involved *more easily* - to have someone say "well, get more involved" ... what do you think they are trying to do by proposing another, more accessible and conversational-formatted mechanism to do so? This feels a little "no! not like that!"

...

On the other hand and for what it's worth, I think there are good suggestions in this thread, and I think that there are suggestions here that aren't as actionable as we think they may be, and I think there are some that, frankly, are built on a lot of assumptions (which, isn't inherently bad, just that assumption-based ideas has their weaknesses). Conjecture has a low tensile strength. It doesn't like being stretched too far.
Lionheart wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 pm
Judging from the lack of dev participation even on this forum and in general and the responses, it seem OWM is a sideshow though, and it will just be what it is. I wish them all the best. But it takes a lot more to get this train rolling.
I dunno. I've had a handful of conversations with 3MS staff just today on here. They've totally read this thread and have probably pondered most of the suggestions in it. If I were in their shoes, I would absolutely take a sit back and see how it unfolds approach while making note of the suggestions that are practical and actionable.

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Kanchou
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Re: Future and potential for Other World Mapper

Post by Kanchou » Fri May 21, 2021 10:11 am

FoaS wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 10:20 pm
I dunno. I've had a handful of conversations with 3MS staff just today on here. They've totally read this thread and have probably pondered most of the suggestions in it. If I were in their shoes, I would absolutely take a sit back and see how it unfolds approach while making note of the suggestions that are practical and actionable.
We have indeed read it :) and we respond to questions and issue reports pretty fast (Unless regression is being a pain ).

Most of the suggestions we plan to follow, and we are still considering an official discord. The issue is it would take from our dev resources the more we actively participate. One of the problems with many Kickstarter or dev projects is developers spending too much time on "hype related" tasks and letting actual dev work and progress get out of focus. Some goals were late (Mac and Linux in particular), but we managed to deliver most of the originally promised content plus a lot more we added along the way.

We'll see were things are in a couple of months and decide then. 2020 slowed our development work to a creep for various reasons, but we are already starting regression testing for a new release. If we can keep a steady rate of a release every 2 months we'll be in a better position to participate more online.

Thank you!

- Alejandro
Alejandro S. Canosa
Three Minds Software

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